Know Your Lore: Ahn'Qiraj, Uldum and the Tol'Vir

This week saw a monumental post on the story forum that answered a variety of World of Warcraft lore questions. One of the questions asked got an answer that blew the metaphorical doors off of a long, puzzling situation. (There will be a lot of Cataclysm spoilers in this post. Be warned.)
Bornakk - Ask CDev #1 Answers - Round 1 Quote:
Q: What happened to all of the Scourge's Obsidian Destroyers?
Q: What happened to all of the Scourge's Obsidian Destroyers?
A: The entities known as obsidian destroyers are actually enslaved titan constructs that were once called the tol'vir. The tol'vir were created to maintain titan lore repositories and titan machinery surrounding the titan cities of Ulduar and Uldum. Not long after the troll empires divided the insectoid kingdom of the aqir, the aqir that travelled north discovered and overthrew the tol'vir society in Northrend. These aqir would eventually become the race we know as the nerubians today, having adapted the tol'vir's architecture for their own purposes. Similarly, the aqir that travelled south ransacked and overthrew a titan research station near Uldum, renaming themselves the qiraji and calling their new home Ahn'Qiraj. Although the Scourge would eventually consume the nerubian empire and throw its few remaining tol'vir slaves into the front lines, it's possible that more tol'vir still exist in the hidden titan city of Uldum or deep within the remnants of Azjol-Nerub.
Now, this is huge. It answered for folks who played Warcraft III why a unit they associated with the Scourge was in AQ. It gave us an idea of what the tol'vir first mentioned at BlizzCon '09 would look like and what they were. The implications are staggering. If you've been wondering (like, frankly, I had been) why the pictures of Uldum coming out looked so much like Anh'Qiraj, now you know. Uldum looks like AQ because both Uldum and AQ were build by the titans, not the old gods or their aqir/qiraji/nerubian servants. It also explains why the nerubian take on architecture derived so decisively from the qiraji model. Both the nerubians and qiraji found and enslaved tol'vir, but the nerubians didn't get their hands on an actual titan built facility the way the qiraji did.
Now, we can see that the architecture of Ulduar and Uldum are vastly different. There are similarities, to be sure, but Uldum/AQ definitely have their own aesthetic. Did the Northrend tol'vir have their own style as well, and that's why nerubian art and construction looks so different from their qiraji cousins? It probably contributed, to be sure. I'm actually ridiculously hopeful that a full-fledged Azjol-Nerub zone will be introduced in Cataclysm the way the Isle of Quel'Danas was at the end of Burning Crusade now.
However, this raises all sorts of further questions for Uldaman, Ulduar and Uldum, as well as AQ. It's fairly easy to justify the construction of a vast complex like AQ so close to Uldum ... Just go to Northrend and you can see that in addition to Ulduar, you see vast titan construction all throughout the Storm Peaks, in Wintergrasp and Strand of the Ancients, and finally in the Sholazar Basin itself. Since Sholozar Basin and Un'Goro are linked, it makes sense that Un'Goro (called the God Lands by the ancient qiraji who attempted to conquer them when fighting the night elves and Bronze Dragonflight) would have similar constructions on or near it. These would have been linked to Uldum in terms of their construction and possible even directly by a southern offshoot of the Path of the Titans that has since been destroyed or fallen into disuse. Since Kalimdor and the Easten Kingdoms were separated by the Sundering, it's entirely possible that Uldaman served as the hub linking Ulduar and Uldum in ancient times.
Furthermore, if you have been paying attention to the various Cataclsym images being released since the NDA has been lifted on sites like MMO-Champion, you've probably seen this one. Compare it to the image of Moam that opened this post and you get a sense of the uncorrupted southern tol'vir versus their enslaved brethren. But what's more, you also got to see Isiset, Setesh and the Uldum Watchers. Obviously they're meant to perform a similar role in Uldum to the watchers of Ulduar. But look at Setesh again. Remind you of anyone? Anyone at all? We've been told in the past that entities like the Anubisath and Ossirian the Unscarred were the creations of the Anh'Qiraj emperors. But we were told that about the Obsidian Destroyers, too, and they're not.
It seems at this point extremely likely that the Anubisath and Ossirian were in fact titan watchers, similar to Cretus and the watchers of Ulduar, assigned either to Uldum or the complex that would become AQ. LIke the tol'vir, they fell in battle or were otherwise enslaved by the qiraji or their dark master, C'thun. The Anubisath certainly look different from the images of the Uldum Watchers we're seeing, but they bear a striking resemblance to Setesh. Did Uldum originally attempt to investigate what happened at AQ?
This is all deeply fascinating to me because of events in the comics. We saw the Twilight's Hammer attempt to infest the ruins of AQ, and Cho'gall himself attempted to raise C'thun from torpor after a band of adventurers "killed" him. Cho'gall even became horribly deformed as a result of C'thun's presence. So we've now established that C'thun isn't entirely dead, that he's infesting a former titan facitilty with ties to Uldum, and that both the Twilight's Hammer (including Cho'gall, who once served C'thun directly and who may still be somehow) and Uldum play heavily in this expansion. We also know that Deathwing currently controls the Twilight's Hammer, but that it was the whispering of the Old Gods (including, one assumes, C'thun and Yogg-Saron) that drove him mad, and (SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER, although this whole post is spoilers) the Twilight's Hammer that is nominally serving Deathwing is still trying to summon or raise Old Gods. I have no idea if Soggoth the Slitherer is the Old God with a giant titan glaive in his/her head in Darkshore, but since that's where they're supposedly attempting to summon him, I'd put good money on it.
It seems very apparent now that the Old Gods and their servants suck at actually making anything new. The entities that became the aqir were twisted from a naturally occurring animal, not created ex nihilo, and their descendants seem to have twisted and corrupted titan constructed beings like the tol'vir and watchers rather than made them. Even the old god's infamous curse of flesh seems aimed at making these entities more malleable servants, but it doesn't make anything new. In the war between Old Gods and titans, the power of invention and creation seems far more aligned with the titans, all the Old Gods know how to do is manipulate, destroy and corrupt. The contrast between Uldum and AQ and the fate of the tol'vir seems a perfect illustration of this failure. The Old Gods may not die as we do, but they also don't live as we do, and as such they have a poor grasp on how to actually make much of anything.
It's interesting that while we see major Old God influences at both Ulduar and in the vicinity of Uldum, we don't see any aside from trogg infestations near Uldaman. But since Uldaman is so close to Ironforge and Gnomeregan, home to the dwarves and gnomes (both descended from titan constructs) and both Uldaman and Gnomeregan have seen trogg infestations, it's possible another old god sleeps below it, one of the architects of the very curse of flesh itself? With Soggoth the Slitherer's introduction, we know the name of three of the five Old Gods, and in at least two cases those Old Gods lie in or near ancient titan sites. Were the sites built entirely because the Old Gods were near them? The Explorer's League was digging up a supposedly ancient site in Darkshore and another, similar one at Bael Modan. Are these remnants of the titan complex built to monitor Soggoth? Hard to say, but a fascinating possibility. In the end the Sundering may have done exactly what the Old Gods wanted, destroying much of the titan early warning system that would have brought Algalon to Azeroth before they could awaken.
Now, with Yogg-Saron conveniently having arranged for Loken's death, Algalon's summoning and defeat by mortals and his own "death" (as much as an Old God of death can die), Deathwing, corrupted by the same old gods, commands the same Twilight's Hammer who are still shown to be working for the Old Gods and tries to break the world anew.
It seems that for the Old Gods at least, the stars may finally be right. And that doesn't even touch on whether or not the prefix "tol" seen in the name of the tol'vir has anything to do with places like Tol Barad. Were there tol'vir survivors in the Eastern Kingdoms, too, perhaps working at or near Uldaman the way the northern ones worked at Ulduar and its satellite constructions before the nerubians enslaved them? Could there even be deeper levels to Uldaman as well, with surviving tol'vir battling the troggs? Was Archaedas really just guarding a vault, or are there deeper secrets yet to be revealed?
No idea -- but it's fun to speculate, huh?
Filed under: Lore, Know your Lore, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Taedran Jul 4th 2010 4:02PM
I had a theory with this recent news... we know that Tol'vir used to exist in Ulduar. And we know there is no story behind Auriaya "The Crazy Cat Lady" Well, what if those cats we fight in Ulduar are the only remaining Tol'vir in Ulduar, and they succumbed to the Curse of Flesh? That would explain why Auriaya went crazy...
Dixonij Jul 5th 2010 2:28PM
Makes a lot of sense. Watching your only companions (in this case the cats) change before your very eyes into flesh combined with the long time patrolling those halls and such close proximity to Yoggy's prison could very well have been the driving force behind her going mad.
TR Jul 4th 2010 4:55PM
All of this kind of makes you wonder what the "Demon Children of Goldshire" and their daily ceremonies in front of Stormwind and Northshire are really up to. If you happen to be in their room while they stare at each other.(where the ambient music changes dramatically from the usual Elwynn Forest music), you'll sometimes hear a famliar voice.
Tim Jul 4th 2010 6:58PM
What are you talking about? Where exactly does this ceremony take place. Would like to check it out in game. Sounds strange.
TR Jul 4th 2010 8:54PM
@ Tim
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=805
http://thottbot.com/c805 (with a grain of salt)
There's 6 in all and they're usually on the second floor of the house in Goldshire with the fishing trainer outside and the leatherworking and skinning trainers inside. I'm not sure when they spawn, but they definitely despawn by 8 PM server. I've also seen them standing outside the gates of Stormwind in a geometric pattern for a few minutes and walking back to Goldshire, but when they're "home" they never move from theirs pots and staring. At. Each. Other. If you sit around long enough you'll hear voice clips which are supposedly the same as C'Thun's from the AQ encounter.
(with a grain of salt)
Sanguinarius Jul 5th 2010 9:52AM
I always figured those kids were a reference to "Children of the Corn".
Valdrana Jul 4th 2010 5:10PM
Tyr! Yes! It's good to know that he wasn't corrupted into Vezax, that would have been an inglorious end for a paragon of justice. Hopefully we'll see him in Uldum, but even if not, at least we haven't killed him. Yet.
ty_clayballentine Jul 4th 2010 5:50PM
Remember Ironaya from Uldaman? When you open the door she says
" None may know the secrets of the makers!"
Theres also that peculiar map on the floor where you summon her.
I think theres a LOT more to Uldaman than we know.
Tim Jul 4th 2010 6:54PM
I like how Rossi threw in that the Twilight Hammer never makes anything new and the fact that they are evil. Same with real life; Satan (Old Gods) doesn't create anything new, he just perverts what God (the Titans) made. You a theology student Rossi? Anyway, kinda cool how you added that in.
Also, from a gamer perspective, we are gonna need some massive gear upgrades to take on the bosses of this expansion. I feel epicness coming on. *Giddy!*
Mr. Tastix Jul 4th 2010 8:19PM
Lore states the Titans created Azeroth, or at least shaped it to what it is today.
I find it rather silly that they can make, alter and destroy planets with the flick of their rest, but they have to lock up Old Gods as opposed to just destroying then. Mortals, however, can apparently destroy these Old Gods, where Titans didn't even try.
Theoretically, the Old Gods and things like Elementals could all be weird creations of the Titans. Or, they're just different forms of demons, which seem to be the ONLY thing the Titans didn't create, or didn't anticipate on being created.
I just find it really weird how something that has made so many powerful objects and PLANETS can't beat an Old God, yet you get 10-40 people and BOOM, OLD GOD DEAD (or virtually dead).
Hivetyrant Jul 4th 2010 9:15PM
It's really hard to understand, it wrecked my brain trying to figure it out too, but I think part of the problem is that we don't know exactly how the Titans create/destroy worlds, from what we have seen and read, Algalon was going to destroy azeroth using some sort of planetary orbital weapon system, luckily we were able to stop him from even thinking about it.
Yet creating systems seems to take them millions of years and they require the aid of the local inhabitants to do it.
Your right, its weird that us players are able to achieve so much, and it makes sense that newer and more powerful enemies keep popping up, but I think we are going to have to fight a Titan one day (I'm guessing Sargeras) and I look forward to it and the answers it brings!
thegatherer Jul 4th 2010 9:30PM
YOu have to remember, the titans didn't want to kill the old gods, just contain them.
If the old gods were killed, all of the life that the curse of life touched would die....
So, ready for all of our characters to die?
Mephron Jul 4th 2010 9:32PM
Remember this from the Tribunal of Ages in the Halls of Stone:
Abedneum yells: Accessing. In the early stages of its development cycle Azeroth suffered infection by parasitic, necrophotic symbiotes.
Brann Bronzebeard yells: Necro-what? Speak bloody common will ya?
Abedneum yells: Designation: Old Gods. Old Gods rendered all systems, including Earthen defenseless in order to facilitate assimilation. This matrix destabilization has been termed the Curse of Flesh. Effects of destabilization increased over time.
So that's where they came from. And it's pretty much established that Yogg-Saron and C'thun aren't totally dead right now, so we haven't just killed them, just knocked them unconcious for a bit.
Boobah Jul 4th 2010 11:30PM
Algalon wasn't going to destroy Azeroth; he was going to 're-originate' it. The process would've killed everything currently on the planet (presumably including the old gods, since Yogg-Saron's imminent escape was the trigger). But the Titans didn't want to destroy everything on the planet; tainted or no, they perceived value in its inhabitants.
It's also terribly likely that neither C'thun nor Yogg-Saron are entirely dead.
IvanZephyr Jul 5th 2010 6:21PM
The trigger was the death of Loken.
Crimpshrine Jul 4th 2010 10:54PM
It may be hoping against hope, but I sure hope they WILL develop ALL of the original plans for Azjol-Nerub sooner or later. Sooner the better! No other moment in the game has really compared to my first glimpses of Ahn'Kahet Old Kingdom or the Azjol-Nerub instance. The incredibly lush and grandiose architecture, the subterranean aesthetic with waterfalls and fungi, the interplay between the natural and the constructed... also the sense of a fallen, lost, place that is past its doom yet still explorable. Loved it. Then my whole sense of it was instantly crushed when I learned that the great underground zone actually WAS intended to extend as far as the visuals first suggest, or much farther, yet it wasn't developed.
You've heard this all before but it's worth repeating the plea!
Luke Jul 5th 2010 12:07AM
As far as old Azeroth curiosities, I'm curious as to the origins of the giant snake-like skeletons in the Valley of Bones in southern Desolace.
Since Desolace is getting overhauled in Cataclysm, I wonder if they'll address those remains. I really like how Azeroth is still marred by the signs of the ancient battle between the Old Gods and Titans.
Mr. Tastix Jul 5th 2010 4:06AM
Oh, I don't doubt for a second the Old Gods are "dead" (besides, how does one kill a God of DEATH?) but we still "defeated" them, in a sense.
@thegatherer: The thing is, our characters don't know that. The Explorers' League clearly don't know that, even intelligent organizations such as the Kirin Tor probably don't know that. The only things that are bound to know are the Old Gods themselves, and the Titans, are neither of them are likely to ever tell us.
I'm not sure knowing would stop anything either. Kill them and we all die (or go back to our original forms, before the Curse of Flesh), or don't kill them and we all die, lol.
bdew Jul 5th 2010 5:10AM
At the very least Trolls, Tauren, Orcs, Draenei and (all kinds of) Elves were always flesh so have nothing to go back to.
Not really sure how that would work for forsaken and worgen either (undead constructs? werewolf constructs? WTF?!?)
Rajinnu Jul 5th 2010 7:40AM
I haven't really ever been that interested in the OId God part of the Lore over the years, but I am getting way more in to it the more we find out.
I think its because the Titans are starting to make more sense the more and more we learn, and they are something I really really want to know.
As for the guy earlier on talking about how the Titans couldn't kill the Old Gods, but can create a planet.
You are obviously assuming that the Titans flick a finger or use magic to do it... who says they don't use science to terraform a planet and have ships and the such like. I mean the Naaru do, I have long thought the Naaru were given their technology (and perhaps are 'ascended beings' who learned from the Titans. I think they have such a hatred for Sargeras because they worked directly with/for him in the past.
Anyway that aside I think the Titans used science and realised that the old gods were somehow tied to the mortals and the planet itself. They decided to imprison them (which is likely harder than just killing them) to keep us all safe.
Now if we go with the fact we haven't actually been killing old gods then its fine, they are alive and likely now free from their prisons.
If we have killed them.. the you know what will eventually hit the fan when we finish the rest off. I am sure either we gonna die (unlikely) or its gonna bring the Titans back to check out what the pesky mortals have done to their perfect world.
Think how pissed the will be at us.
Wreck the well of eternity
Wreck the land
Mess with the emerald dream
Kill aspects
Kill old gods
Kill each other for no real reason
Open portals to dying worlds
Let green aliens invade
the list goes on
The titans are not going to be happy!